>> THIS WEEK JOE BIDEN RAISED 26 MILLION DOLLARS AT A RADIO CITY MUSIC HALL EVENT.
MEANWHILE DONALD TRUMP IS SELLING BIBLES AS PART OF AN EFFORT TO PAY HIS LEGAL BILLS.
BIDEN AND TRUMP ARE CLOSELY MATCHED IN THE POLLS.
TONIGHT, WE'LL LOOK AT THERE COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGES AND DISADVANTAGES, PLUS MORE.
NEXT.
>> IT IS APPROPRIATE THAT WE WILL TALK TONIGHT ABOUT THE BIBLE AND THE POWER THAT MONEY PLAYS IN POLITICS.
MAYBE WE WILL CALL THIS THE RENDER UNTO CAESAR EDITION.
WE HAVE A LOT TO COVER.
JOINING ME TO DISCUSS THE CAMPAIGN ARE MY COLLEAGUES AT THE ATLANTIC.
SHE IS A SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST FOR CNN AND A POLICY COLUMNIST.
AND HE IS A WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT FOR REUTERS.
WELCOME TO ALL OF YOU.
THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.
I WANT TO START WITH YOU.
YOU WROTE ABOUT JOE LIEBERMAN DYING THIS WEEK.
I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT HIM AND HIS ROLE IN POLITICS.
BUT I ALSO WANTED TO TALK ABOUT WHAT I AM THINKING OF AS THE DEMISE OF THE CENTRIST.
LIEBERMANN WAS PART OF A GROUP THAT REALLY NO LONGER EXISTS.
PEOPLE WHO ARE STILL IN THE SENATE BUT ARE LEAVING.
WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT IS CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRATS AND WHAT WE WILL WANTS -- WOULD ONCE CALL MODERATE REPUBLICANS.
>> SHE HAD A REAL WARM PERSONALITY AND WAS KIND OF A THROWBACK TO A MUCH LESS ANGRY TYPE OF POLITICS.
JOE LIEBERMAN WAS GENEROUS AND DECENT BUT ALSO VERY STUBBORN AND INFURIATING TO PEOPLE.
HE WAS NOT TERRIBLY POPULAR IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.
HE RAN AS AN INDEPENDENT.
>> ARE THERE ANY PEOPLE LIKE HIM LEFT?
CAN YOU THINK OF ANYONE?
>> IT IS HARD TO THINK OF ANYBODY WHO IS THAT MODEL OF POLITICS WHILE -- NOW.
THERE IS NOBODY WHO WANTS TO BE RUNNING ON A NO LABELS PARTY.
THERE IS SUCH PARTISANSHIP.
IT IS BASED ON POLICY.
PART OF THE IMPULSE IN TRUMP'S VERSION OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS THAT PARTY IS MUCH MORE RADICAL.
THIS KIND OF POLITICS OF COMBAT AND PERSONAL DESTRUCTION REALLY RULES THE DAY.
YOU HAVE HAD THAT COME INTO POLITICS.
>> SPEAKING OF POLARIZATION AND ANGER, I WANT TO TALK ABOUT RONNA MCDANIEL AND THE REVOLT OF THE ANCHORS.
THAT IS WHAT I AM CALLING IT.
A MOVIE THAT YOU WOULD NOT GO SEE.
WE SOUGHT THIS INCIDENT WHERE SHE WAS HIRED AND THEN FIRED BY NBC.
THE FORMER RNC CHAIR.
WHY DID RONNA MCDANIEL FIND HERSELF TO BE THE OBJECT OF DERISION AMONG JOURNALISTS?
>> I THINK IT WAS NOT CERTAINLY THAT SHE IS REPUBLICAN.
AND NOT EVEN THAT SHE HAS TIES TO TRUMP.
BIG BECAUSE SHE HAD SUCH SPECIFIC INVOLVEMENT IN TRYING TO OVERTURN THE ELECTION.
THAT IS CERTAINLY WHAT THE ANCHORS OBJECTED TO AND WHY PEOPLE WERE SAYING THEY WERE FLUMMOXED BY HER.
>> THIS IS A PERSON WHO LITERALLY TRIED TO CONVINCE CANVASSERS TO NOT CERTIFY THE RESULT IN THE MICHIGAN RACE.
THE QUESTION IS, AND THIS IS, I DON'T WANT TO TURN IT INTO A JOURNALISM ETHICS SEMINAR.
BUT WHERE IS THE LINE?
A LOT OF PEOPLE HIRE PEOPLE OF VARIOUS STRIPES TO DO COMMENTARY ON POLITICS.
BUT WAS THIS KIND OF AN OVERREACTION ON THE PART OF JOURNALISM?
>> WE HAVE SPENT THE LAST FOUR YEARS SAYING WE SHOULD NOT TRY TO NORMALIZE THE EVENTS OF JANUARY 6.
TRYING TO OVERTURN AN ELECTION.
THERE WAS THIS THOUGHT BY MAKING THIS HIGHER, SHE HAD A SIGNIFICANT ROLE IN THE EVENTS OF THAT DAY.
TO DO THAT WOULD BE TO ABDICATE OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO DEMOCRACY AND THE TRUTH.
>> YOU ARE THE ANTHROPOLOGIST OF WASHINGTON.
WAS THIS AN EFFORT BY NBC OR AN INDICATION THAT IN BUSY -- NBC THOUGHT TRUMP WILL BE THE LIKELY WEATHER AND THEY'RE TRYING TO MAKE THEIR PEACE WITH HIM?
>> IT COULD BE.
I AM A POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR TO MSNBC BUT I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS.
I THINK IT WAS A CLUMSY EFFORT.
BUT I THINK IT IS AN EFFORT TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT SOMEONE WHO HAS SOME KIND OF VIABILITY.
SHE IS NOT THAT KIND OF PERSON.
AT THE TIME THERE WERE A LOT OF SPONSORS AND FUNDRAISERS WHO SAID WE ARE NOT TOUCHING THESE PEOPLE.
THEY WANT TO RUN AS FAR AWAY FROM IT AS HAPPENED.
MANY PEOPLE WANT TO RUN BACK.
PEOPLE SAID WE WILL NOT BE PART OF THIS.
WE DON'T WANT ANY PART OF IT.
>> THAT NEED TO FIT TO THE BIBLE.
WE WILL HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF BIBLE STUDY RIGHT NOW.
SPECIFICALLY TALKING ABOUT THE TRUMP BIBLE.
I WANT YOU TO WATCH.
IT IS SELF EXPLANATORY.
>> ALL AMERICANS NEED A BIBLE IN THEIR HOME.
I HAVE MANY.
IT IS MY FAVORITE BOOK.
I AM PROUD TO ENDORSE AND ENCOURAGE YOU TO GET THIS BIBLE.
WE MUST MAKE AMERICA PRAY AGAIN.
>> FRINGE.
ABSOLUTELY.
>> YES.
>> I COME FROM A VERY RELIGIOUS HOUSEHOLD.
MY FATHER WAS A BAPTIST MINISTER.
THE IDEA OF SELLING A BIBLE, WE KNOW WHAT THIS IS ABOUT.
HE IS IN DIRE STRAITS.
SELLING THE WORD OF GOD WILL BE USED TO FUND SOME LEGAL ENTANGLEMENTS HE FINDS HIMSELF IN.
THIS GOES TO HIS CORE CONSTITUENCY.
WHITE, EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANS.
I'M SURE FOLKS WILL WANT TO BUY THE BIBLE.
HE KNOWS WHAT HIS CORE CONSTITUENCY IS.
HE KNOWS HE CAN GO TO THEM TIME AND TIME AGAIN.
HE HAS COMPARED HIMSELF TO JESUS.
HE IS SEEN AS A MESSIANIC FIGURE.
I REMEMBER TALKING ABOUT HIS APPEAL TO EVANGELICALS AND PEOPLE OF FAITH.
HE SAID IT TAKES ALL KINDS TO ADVANCE THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
WE HAVE SEEN THAT TIME AND TIME AGAIN.
HE IS VERY POPULAR.
TO THE EXTENT THAT HE HAS A CHANCE, IT IS BECAUSE OF THIS CORE GROUP.
>> IT IS A FASCINATING CONTRAST BETWEEN THE CANDIDATES.
YOU HAVE ONE CANDIDATE WHO GOES TO CHURCH EVERY WEEK BUT IS NOT SEEN BY THE RIGHT AS BEING A GOOD ENOUGH CHRISTIAN.
AND THEN YOU HAVE SOMEONE ON THE RIGHT WHO STRUGGLES TO TALK ABOUT WHAT HIS FAVORITE BIBLE VERSE IS.
I COVERED HIM FOR FOUR YEARS IN THE WHITE HOUSE AND HE IS CERTAINLY NOT A REGULAR CHURCHGOER.
THAT IS NOT PART OF HIS DNA.
BUT IT IS PART OF HIS POLITICAL BASE.
ONE THAT HAS RESONATED GREATLY OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS.
>> IS THIS MORE ABOUT JUST ANOTHER FUNDRAISING EFFORT?
HE WAS SELLING SNEAKERS LAST WEEK.
OR IS THIS A WAY OF BUTTRESSING HIS REPUTATION AMONG EVANGELICALS?
I AM THE CANDIDATE OF THE BIBLE?
>> I THINK IT IS BOTH.
$60 IS NOT A CHEAP AMOUNTS TO PAY FOR A BIBLE.
THIS IS NOT JUST FOR THE REGULAR CHURCHGOERS BUT THE ONES WHO CLAIM EVANGELICAL STATUS.
THEY LIKE THE SYMBOL OF IT ALL.
THEY LIKE WHAT DONALD TRUMP STANDS FOR.
THEY WANT AMERICA HAS TO STAND FOR THIS VERSION.
>> IT IS TACKY.
>> THIS IS AGAIN PART OF DONALD TRUMP'S APPEAL.
HIS SUPPORTERS SEE WHAT THEY PERCEIVE TO BE SECULAR BLUE STATE CITIZENS LOOKING DOWN ON THEM.
CONSIDERING WHAT DONALD TRUMP IS DOING TO BE TACKY.
WHETHER IT IS OR ISN'T.
PART OF IT IS JUST THE DIVISION OF OUR POLITICS.
DO NOT LOSE SIGHT OF WHO PEOPLE FEEL IS THEIR OPPOSITION IN TRYING TO TROLL THEM.
>> WE ARE RELIGIOUS OR OBSERVANT PEOPLE.
WE TAKE THE BIBLE VERY SERIOUSLY.
HOW IS IT THAT JOE BIDEN A CHURCHGOER, HE WOULD NOT DO THIS.
HE WOULD NOT SELL A BIBLE.
I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW PEOPLE DON'T SEE THROUGH THE SURFACE OF THIS.
>> THIS GOES TO THE DIVISION AND HOW WE REALLY CANNOT BEGIN TO ENTER THE WORLD OF THE OTHER SIDE.
I THINK THAT IS TRUE IN BOTH DIRECTIONS.
THERE IS JUST NO ACCESS POINT AT ALL.
WE THINK ABOUT THINGS THAT SO COMPLETELY DIVIDE OUR SOCIETY.
THIS IS ANOTHER ONE.
>> LET'S GO TO THE FINANCES.
YOU HAVE BEEN TRAVELING ALL WEEK WITH JOE BIDEN.
YOU JUST GOT HERE FROM ENDLESS FLYING AROUND THE COUNTRY WITH JOE BIDEN.
HE IS DOING VERY WELL IN THE FUNDRAISING.
IT IS A SUPERFICIAL CONTRAST BUT $26 MILLION AT RADIO CITY MUSIC HALL VERSUS SELLING SNEAKERS AND THE BIBLE.
IS TRUMP IN TROUBLE ON THE FUNDRAISING COMPARED TO JOE BIDEN?
>> HE IS CERTAINLY STRUGGLING.
IT IS A MEASURE OF YOUR CAMPAIGN'S HEALTH.
THAT SIGN OF FUNDRAISING STRENGTH WAS SOMETHING THAT OBAMA WANTED TO HELP BIDEN WITH.
IN GENERAL THE CAMPAIGN WANTED TO SAY WE HAVE ENTHUSIASM.
HERE IT IS IN THE NUMBERS.
HE IS SAYING HE IS SEEING A TURN IN POLLING.
HE WALKS OUT AND HE SAYS HE FEELS THE ENTHUSIASM.
IT IS MANIFESTING IN HAVING A PRETTY STRONG SET OF NUMBERS.
>> IT IS A LITTLE BIT TOO EARLY TO TALK ABOUT TURN IN POLLING.
>> THE STATE OF THE UNION, I THINK THE CAMPAIGN WILL GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE FIERY STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS AS A TURNING POINT.
WE WILL SEE HOW LONG THAT LASTS.
HE CAME OUT SWINGING.
AND THIS CAME AFTER A TIME WHEN HE HAD BEEN TAKING A LOT OF HITS FOR HIS AGE.
THE SPECIAL COUNSEL REPORT CAME OUT.
HE TRIED TO PUT SOME OF THAT TO BED WITH THAT SPEECH.
THEY ARE SEEING IN ENTHUSIASM >> .
BLOOMBERG HAD SOME POLLING ON THIS.
THERE IS A BIT OF MOMENTUM IN THE SWING STATES, PARTICULARLY IN MICHIGAN, WISCONSIN, AND PENNSYLVANIA.
THEY SHOW A BIT OF A NARROWING.
THERE IS A BIT OF MOMENTUM.
FOLKS WHO SAW THAT SPEECH USED WORDS LIKE FIERY AND ENERGETIC TO DESCRIBE IT.
THEY ARE MUCH MORE LIKELY TO SEE THE POSITIVE STORIES ABOUT JOE BIDEN.
THAT HELPS.
TO THE EXTENT THIS WOULD BE A TURNING POINT, THE STATE OF THE UNION WOULD KICK IT OFF.
THEY HAVE $30 MILLION IN ADS BLASTING THESE SWING STATE VOTERS WHO WILL BE SO CRUCIAL.
YOU SEE AN UPTICK AND A NEW KIND OF SWAGGER WITH JOE BIDEN TAKING IT TO DONALD TRUMP AND MOCKING HIM IN SO MANY WAYS.
THERE IS A BIT OF A SHIFT IN TERMS OF MOMENTUM.
>> JUST THE PASSAGE OF TIME.
THE PRIMARIES ARE EFFECTIVELY OVER.
THE NOMINEES HAVE BEEN CHOSEN.
PEOPLE ARE NOW STARTING TO EGG KNOWLEDGE THAT THIS IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN.
A LOT OF THE LACK OF ENTHUSIASM FOR BIDEN SOME MONTHS AGO WAS FOCUSING ON, IS THIS ACTUALLY HAPPENING.
HE HAS PERFORMED QUITE WELL IN THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARIES.
TRUMP HAS SHOWN SOME VULNERABILITY.
>> LET'S STAY ON THIS FOR A MINUTE.
WE JUST HEARD THE WORDS SWAGGER, FIERY, AND ROBUST IN RELATIONSHIP TO JOE BIDEN.
FOUR WEEKS AGO, WE WOULD NOT HAVE HEARD THIS.
ARE THE REPUBLICANS SUFFERING?
THEY TOLD US JOE BIDEN IS A DEMENTIA PATIENT.
THEIR ARGUMENT WAS THAT HE IS REDUCED PHYSICALLY AND MENTALLY.
AND THEN HE COMES OUT AT THE STATE OF THE UNION AND IS PEPPY.
>> IN ADDITION, THE RESULTS OF THE TRANSCRIPT OF THE INTERVIEW WITH THE SPECIAL COUNSEL THAT TURNED OUT NOT TO BE AS DAMMING IN HIS MEMORY.
AND THERE WAS THE FALSE ADVERTISING YOU ARE REFERRING TO BY SOME REPUBLICANS THAT IS NOT BEARING OUT.
THAT DOES NOT MEAN AGE WILL NOT BE A WEAKNESS FOR PRESIDENT BIDEN.
IN NEW YORK HE SURROUNDED HIMSELF WITH HIS DEMOCRATIC PREDECESSORS.
AND HE IS OLDER THAN BOTH OF THEM.
AND YET THEY WERE MAKING A VERY FIRM ARGUMENT FOR WHY THEIR SUCCESSORS SHOULD HAVE A SECOND TERM.
>> YOU HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING HIM ALL WEEK ON THE TRAIL.
GIVE US YOUR FIRST-HAND IMPRESSIONS OF HIS ENERGY LEVEL.
>> ENTHUSIASM IS VERY HIGH.
ENERGY IS VERY HIGH.
COGENCY IS PRETTY GOOD.
HE HAS GOOD DAYS AND BAD DAYS.
WE ALL DO.
BUT AT HIS FUNDRAISERS HE IS TRYING OUT SOME NEW LINES.
ONE OF HIS AIDES CAME UP TO ME AT A COUPLE OF OTHER TRAVELING REPORTERS BEFORE HE STARTED SPEAKING AND SAID PAY ATTENTION, HE HAS A NEW RIFF TONIGHT.
IT WAS TO TALK ABOUT PRESIDENT TRUMP SAYING ARE YOU BETTER OFF THAN YOU WERE FOUR YEARS AGO?
HE SAYS, I'M GLAD YOU ASKED.
THEN HE GOES INTO A COMPARISON OF HOW THINGS ARE NOW COMPARED TO MARCH OF 2020 WHEN COVID WAS IN FULL SWING AND HOSPITALS WERE STRUGGLING AND THE ECONOMY WAS CRATERING.
THAT WAS THE NEW RIFF.
IT IS A SIGN THAT THEY ARE PUMPING UP HIS CAMPAIGN SPEECHES.
HE SEEMS ENERGETIC AND ENTHUSED.
>> ONE AREA WHERE HE SEEMS TO BE CHALLENGED IS IN THE ENTHUSIASM GAP WITH BLACK AND HISPANIC VOTERS.
WE HAVE SEEN DIFFERENT POLES BUT THEY ALL POINT TO A CHALLENGE ESPECIALLY WITH BLACK MALE VOTERS AND HISPANIC MALE VOTERS.
SOME NUMBERS SHOW AS MANY AS 25% OF BLACK VOTERS ARE CURIOUS ABOUT TRUMP.
HOW SERIOUS IS THIS?
>> I THINK IT IS A VERY REAL CHALLENGE.
WE DO HAVE TO COMPLICATE SOME OF THOSE POLL NUMBERS A LITTLE BIT.
YOU WILL SEE WHERE BLACK MEN ARE SAYING THEY ARE AROUND EIGHT OR 9%.
THAT IS NEVER THE CASE.
IT DOES NOT HAPPEN.
SIMILARLY, IF YOU THINK ABOUT WHERE BLACK VOTER TURNOUT IS, IT WILL NOT BE AS HIGH BECAUSE OF WHEN WE SAW TRUMP WAS ON THE BALLOT, VOTER LEVELS WERE ABOUT THE SAME.
FOR HISPANIC VOTERS, IT WILL BE A LITTLE BIT DIFFICULT.
A LITTLE BIT MORE COMPLICATED.
WHAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN DOING FOR THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS, NOW THAT THEY HAVE THIS LARGE GROUNDSWELL OF FUNDING, THEY ARE STARTING TO GO INTO THOSE MARKETS A LITTLE BIT HEAVIER.
THEY'RE GOING TO MICHIGAN HARD.
GEORGIA HARD.
TRYING TO INCREASE SOME OF THE USE TURNOUT.
THAT IS A LOT OF IT.
WE SEE SOME OF THE LARGE GAPS.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE LIKELY VOTERS, SOME OF THEM WOULD SUPPORT BIDEN IN A GENERAL ELECTION.
96% OF VOTERS ON PRIMARY DATE WERE VOTING FOR HIM.
NONE OF THOSE SAME FOLKS WHO WERE POLLED WERE VOTING FOR TRUMP.
WE HAVE TO CONSIDER THE LIKELIHOOD OF PEOPLE HAVING THAT REALITY OF WE ARE IN NOVEMBER, THIS IS ELECTION DAY, THESE ARE OPTIONS.
>> ONE OF THE MANY REASONS TO HAVE YOU ON THE SHOW.
LET'S STAY ON THIS SUBJECT.
AS WE WRAP UP.
TO TRUMP'S CANDIDATE, NO REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE HAS PULLED THIS WELL WITH BLACK AND HISPANIC VOTERS.
OBVIOUSLY WHERE EARLY, BUT WHAT IS YOUR EXPLANATION?
>> IT IS HARD TO KNOW.
I FEEL LIKE WE ARE HERE EVERY CYCLE.
I REMEMBER IN 2022 TALKING ABOUT AFRICAN-AMERICAN VOTERS.
REPUBLICANS COULD GET UP TO 25%.
THAT DID NOT END UP HAPPENING.
I THINK SOME OF THIS IS WISH CASTING.
WE HEAR KELLYANNE CONWAY ON FOX NEWS TALKING ABOUT ALL THE BLACK AND LATINO MEN WHO WILL VOTE FOR TRUMP.
IT IS NOT BORNE OUT WHEN PEOPLE ACTUALLY GO TO THE POLLS.
I THINK THERE IS A SLIGHT SHIFT IN SOME OF THIS.
IT IS A REVERSION BACK TO WHERE AFRICAN-AMERICAN AND LATINO VOTERS WERE PRIOR TO OBAMA.
THERE WAS A HUGE SHIFT IN BRACKEN BLOUNT -- BLACK AND BROWN VOTERS FOR OBAMA.
THEY HAD VOTED FOR REPUBLICANS PRIOR TO THAT.
I THINK WE ARE SEEING SOME OF THAT IN THE ELECTORATE.
THEY ARE CONCERNED.
RFK JUNIOR IS IN THE RACE NOW.
THAT COULD BE AN ISSUE.
HE IS DRAWING SOME ATTENTION FROM YOUNG VOTERS AND AFRICAN-AMERICAN VOTERS.
>> WHO DOES HE HURT?
>> THE BIDEN PEOPLE SEEM TO BE MORE SCARED OF HIM THAN THE TRUMP PEOPLE.
THE FACT IS, WE DO NOT KNOW.
IT IS A REAL WILD CARD.
PART OF THE DEMOCRATIC BASE IS VERY SUSPICIOUS OF VACCINES.
THEY ARE PUTTING A LOT OF RESOURCES INTO GOING AFTER THEM.
>> HE WILL BE A CONTINUING ISSUE.
HIS NUMBERS CAN BE TOP 20%.
>> WE WILL BE TALKING ABOUT HIM MORE AND ALL OF THESE THINGS.
I WANT TO THANK OUR PANELISTS FOR JOINING US.
VISIT THE ATLANTIC.COM TO READ ABOUT THE PASSING OF JOE LIEBERMAN.
BEFORE WE GO, WE WANT TO NOTE A SAD ANNIVERSARY.
TODAY MARKS ONE YEAR OF CAPTIVITY FOR OUR COLLEAGUE AT THE WALL STREET JOURNAL WHO HAS BEEN FALSELY ACCUSED BY RUSSIAN AUTHORITIES OF BEING A SPY.
HE COMMITTED NO CRIMES.
PRACTICING JOURNALISM IS NOT A CRIME.
IN KEEPING WITH THE RELIGIOUS THEME OF THIS EVENING, ON THIS SABBATH AND A MONTH BEFORE THE PASSOVER HOLIDAY THAT CELEBRATES LIBERATION, WE EARNESTLY HOPE FOR HIS RELEASE.
WE ARE HOLDING A SEAT AT THIS TABLE FOR HIM.
HE IS A GREAT REPORTER AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO THE DAY WHERE WE CAN ALL HEAR HIS VOICE ONCE AGAIN.
GOOD NIGHT FROM WASHINGTON.
